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Otherworld - a game I'm working on

Discussion in 'Online Game Development' started by Tariel, Jul 14, 2016.

  1. Tariel

    Tariel New Ogre New Ogre

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    I think combat will be more dynamic if the chance of landing a hit remains at 75% or higher, or otherwise missing is made more colorful, telling you if you missed by a mile or just by a few inches.

    Last night I wrote a script that slurs speech for when you're drunk. I don't have a system for drunkenness and won't get there in a while, but I just felt like writing it.

    Also when I was taking a shower, I had a thought about how to manage splitting tree trunks into planks or logs. It might require slight changes to the system, but mainly it will use the basic resource processing system.

    Overall I would like to have very detailed body modeling, so at some point it will for example be possible to torture someone by pulling off their fingernails. But I feel like in the beginning I should start with less details and go into more detail gradually. The combat system needs to tell the difference between small and large animals. Something like a deer can kick you in the chest or head, while something like a mole can only nibble at your toes. It should also eventually take into account if the character has fallen down.
     
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    ogreman

    ogreman Ogre In Charge Staff Member GameOgre Admin

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    Ok, that could work with combat:).

    What all do you think you could do with that?

    Yes, since it is text it would really help to add as much depth where ever possible especially in combat.
     
  3. Tariel

    Tariel New Ogre New Ogre

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    I wrote a system where the body is divided into rectangles, and you roll x and y, aiming for a certain spot with a random variation. Most attack types have several possible targets. There are critical spots like arteries, and crippling spots like tendons. But currently I don't feel like working this at all. Nobody is supporting me so it feels pretty pointless. I wrote a complicated table for tracking wounds but I don't feel like writing the system that records damage.
     
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    ogreman

    ogreman Ogre In Charge Staff Member GameOgre Admin

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    I know the feeling, but I am willing to help if I can:). We can help you play test and can cover it on the site/social media:). Also, if you need me help on something specific just let me know.

    The thread itself is also a success as it now has 100 total posts and is one of the better threads in years:).

    How about it putting on a server and start working on it? I could set you up on a hosting account and domain if that helps. I respect the effort you have put it into this and I know that sometimes just getting something like that done helps me. What you could do is introduce the game on a site about it while working on the game itself. I think having a site with a lot of the info/features would help you and players when the game starts:)
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2016
  5. Tariel

    Tariel New Ogre New Ogre

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    I'm worried that if we get a bit hype going and then I fail to finish programming the key features, a lot of people are going to be disappointed. I'm going to be fairly busy in real life until Christmas, so I won't have as much time to work on programming as I did between June and now. I have big writer's block about the combat/hunting system. I need to stop over-complicating things. I should decide which weapons are even possible to Neolithic characters and only assign values to those. I should be using my preset editor instead of entering values directly into the database because that eliminates the chance of typos.

    It's true it is up to the point that I should be thinking about hosting, I just can't financially invest in it this year because recently I've been spending more money than I'm getting. I had to spend about 500 euros on dentist bills and part of the car is getting repainted which will cost 147 euros. I've cancelled all unnecessary subscriptions to save money.

    The server should support php5/mysql and hopefully cron jobs as well. Currently I only need one database but who knows it might change in the future. But the first server doesn't need to be perfect because it's always possible to move later on if the game outgrows the available services.
     
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    ogreman

    ogreman Ogre In Charge Staff Member GameOgre Admin

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    Yes, would be great to stick with simple to get started. Maybe keep notes of stuff you want to expand later would help?

    If you can use my shared hosting for this project and continue with the project, you don't have to pay anything:). I have supported/helped many people here over the years and most don't make 10% of the effort you do. Thus, that's one you thing you wont have to worry about.

    Also went looking for a domain to host it on last night. Everything good with Otherworld in .com is gone including OtherworldGame and OtherworldRPG. However, I found one domain fairly in that ballpark that I liked so much that I bought it:). It can also be used for your game: OgreWorld.com. I own about a dozen "Ogre" names so was pleasantly surprised to find that one:).
     
  7. Tariel

    Tariel New Ogre New Ogre

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    In the testing stage I'm not picky about the domain name. There has been some thinking about what else could the game be called besides Otherworld but I have lived with this title since 2011, so I have grown rather fond of it. If you can offer me free space to put the game online, that would certainly be a relief.
     
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    ogreman

    ogreman Ogre In Charge Staff Member GameOgre Admin

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    Yea, you can use OgreWorld.com as long as you need to. I may do something with it eventually because I do like the name, but I doubt it would be anytime soon. The main thing is to get you up and running:).

    You should get it if you can then:). It is your name so it would be better if you owned it. OgreWorld just happened to work for me and at least it sounds like Otherworld a little bit so it could be used temporarily until you moved to something that suits you better:). Either way, I need to know what domain you want to start with before I can make the storage available to you.

    Will have to PM you the important stuff:).
     
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    ogreman

    ogreman Ogre In Charge Staff Member GameOgre Admin

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    You mentioned the damage system above with critical spots on arteries and tendons. Do you can eventually evolve that into like a MMA fight or just a knock down drag out fight? If so, that could have uses for more than just this game:). Because very few fighting games are that deep:). In fact, most combat in games like that is not that deep.
     
  10. Tariel

    Tariel New Ogre New Ogre

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    I'm not exactly sure what you are going for.
    The combat system is still largely unfinished. My most recent discovery was to give weapons severing, piercing and crushing values instead of calculating those based on the weapon's attributes. That simplifies things a lot. I think I'm very close to recording actual wounds. My current problem is that the neolithic weapons seem too weak to actually harm the target unless it hits a critical spot. Also I need to decide how the crippled, fallen down and concussion states are recorded. Probably in the object attributes table. (Animal and human bodies are considered objects, which simplifies a lot of things.) Different animals will have different fighting techniques. Wolves will target critical tendons until the victim falls down, then aim for the throat, while birds of prey aim for the eyes. Ungulates kick mainly at the chest and will attempt to make the target fall over, then trample.
     
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    ogreman

    ogreman Ogre In Charge Staff Member GameOgre Admin

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    Just thinking out loud. If I made a game myself, it would probably be a fighting game since I could probably do that the best. Maybe some day when I can code myself:).

    That would be great for the weapons:). Used to love an old game called Die by the Sword where you could sever limbs and target certain areas of the body for damage. I have not really seen that since, unfortunately.

    Like the sound of the animal system as well. That should be more interesting than most combat systems today.
     
  12. Tariel

    Tariel New Ogre New Ogre

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    Now that the test server is set up, I started thinking about what do I really want to see in the game? What is going to make people want to play it? Some people will want to play loners and just explore and survive on their own, while others will want to form communities and socialize. Both should be possible paths. It should be possible to survive as a loner, but teaming up should be beneficial enough that people will want to do it.

    In the future, people will be required to sail to other islands to get seeds and farm multiple crops. Either that or trade with someone else who has done it. Things like producing bronze and iron will generally be possible within any continent, so it's possible to reach a higher level of development without ever leaving your birth island, but if you want to have access to a wider array of fruits and vegetables, you need to crossbreed and farm multiple crops.

    A lot of processes are very complicated in the real life, and I'm not sure how much they should be simplified in the game. For example, how to make wine or cheese, or does baking bread require yeast? I read that originally, the yeast used to rise bread dough came from natural yeast that exists on the surface of grapes. Somehow this ended up in someone's dough, and even though they didn't understand where it came from, they saved some of the dough and used it as a starter for the next batch. Also blue or white cheese was invented when someone forgot a piece of cheese in a small cave, and found it again months later and found out the particular mold in that cave made it taste good.

    I wrote a basic set of statements that will form the backbone of development. Some of them matter more than others.
    • We strive for realism, but if it gets on the way of player enjoyment, it will be reworked
    • We strive to make every culture unique in some way
    • Farming is the backbone of any larger community
    • This is a multiplayer game. It's more fun to play with other players than by yourself
    • There is strength in teamwork - it is better to be part of a group than a loner
    • You have the right to choose who you play with - if it doesn't work out then one must leave
    • Every character has a mother and a father, even in cases where their identity is undefined
    • If something is boring, make an NPC do it and concentrate on something you enjoy instead
    • Death is irreversible
    • People are allowed to believe in reincarnation, but even if you were someone else in a past life, you shouldn't let it define who you become in this one
     
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    ogreman

    ogreman Ogre In Charge Staff Member GameOgre Admin

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    Glad the test server is up:).

    Good idea. Supporting both the solo player and multiplayer is the best way. Seen countless multiplayer games on Steam that are essentially dead because of a small if not nonexistent player base. There is no single player game so nobody ends up playing. It is a shame because some of the games are really good.

    Hmmm, what about community polling for some of the complex stuff to see what they would prefer? Think that would help the community feel like they are part of making the game and they would be.

    Good, keep those handy. If we put up a website for the game, that is what you want on it for players before they signup.
     
  14. Tariel

    Tariel New Ogre New Ogre

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    I would be willing to take suggestions on how to make stuff work. One thing I'm never going to change though is that there will be children. That idea has been with me since the beginning, and it's something Cantr can never have. FTO did it, but the problem there is that no one ever has the time to actively teach a new child to speak or do basic things, so either you grow up mute or you pick up speech without interaction, which doesn't make much sense. In my idea, at least the first year of a child's life will be automated, because 1) babies are very fragile and it's certain to drive people away if they get murdered or starve to death before they even learn to talk and 2) babies can't do much of anything, so it gets old fast. If someone starts playing a child character starting from their first birthday, they are allowed to know a few words and interact with light items. 3-year-olds can work on easy projects. 10-year-olds can pretty much do anything that adults can.

    One question is whether to only allow mating from 18-years on, even though in prehistoric societies girls generally started popping out babies younger than that, some as young as 10. Of course the risk of dying in childbirth is higher the younger the mother is, so I personally think it should be up to the societies ingame to realize that teenagers require protection. I think it would be bad to have a solid limit saying you physically cannot mate before 18, because in real life a lot of people get sexually active when they're 13. But people with characters who are minors won't be allowed to rp sex because of legal reasons. They can just click a nondescript button that can potentially lead to pregnancy.

    My idea of using NPCs for work: You can feed and clothe NPCs, which leaves them in a debt of gratitude. When an NPC has a debt of gratitude, you can assign work to them. NPCs will have skills like PCs and some will be better at some things than others. So basically you are exchanging food/clothes/other wealth into work credits (external AP) that you can spend on projects. In the future it will also be possible to enslave NPCs and intimidate them into working for you. They still require upkeep but they will be less demanding than free NPCs. Also if someone gives a free NPC a better offer, they can switch loyalties, where as slaves are generally loyal to one master.
     
  15. Tariel

    Tariel New Ogre New Ogre

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    I fixed multiple bugs today. One was that apparently my local environment is case-insensitive about variable names, but the online server is case-sensitive. Also I had a recurring bug, and I have no idea how it's even possible that the code was previously working at all.
     
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    ogreman

    ogreman Ogre In Charge Staff Member GameOgre Admin

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    Yes, you need to stick to your core ideas:). Suggestions should be limited to areas that you don't have definite ideas about yet.

    I would stick with 18 and up for that:). Yes, that has not always been the case, but I think it could open up a bad can of worms if it is below that.

    Hmmm, the NPCs having skills will be interesting. Some can be like traders in markets and auctions?

    Good, glad to hear you got some nasty bugs smashed:).
     
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    ogreman

    ogreman Ogre In Charge Staff Member GameOgre Admin

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    How is the game going now:)?

    Are you still having technical difficulties?
     
  18. Tariel

    Tariel New Ogre New Ogre

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    I don't have time to work on it during weekdays. I had a sort of a bug in the tree/bush/grass cuttings feature, but I fixed it. I now have two testers. I also made some progress on the combat system last weekend, and I'm hoping to release the first version this weekend. I'm sort of worried that the animals might end up being too dangerous opponents because there are no shields yet, or any sort of armor. Originally I wasn't planning to implement death yet but I'm going to tell the player if their character would've died if the mechanics were finished. Also I need to implement natural healing. I should probably bind it to resting. Then I won't have to check it constantly.
     
  19. Tariel

    Tariel New Ogre New Ogre

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    It seems the system requires more work than I realized. I'm now to a point that it's possible to fight against animals, and technically people can also fight each other if they enter the same combat with an animal, but auto-retaliation doesn't work with human opponents, so it's possible to kill someone by hitting them repeatedly. I should either disable humans from hitting each other for now, or implement the same delay that will be in the final system. Combat between humans should work differently from combat against animals. FTO tried a system where characters auto-retaliate, and it made it far too easy to kill others by first fighting them until you're injured, then exiting battle, healing yourself and repeating until the enemy dies. I need to prevent that in my game. I have killed 5 animals with my test character and accidentally died once. There is no healing process yet. Also I need to implement the butchering process for extracting animal parts.

    I don't remember if I've written it here, but the original idea was to give people 16 hours real time to set their preferences for fighting back or surrendering, after which the combat will be auto-resolved following the rules that the players have selected.

    Example: Andy decides to attack Berta. Andy selects battle strategy for cripple until Berta surrenders, with exceptions that if his own blood level goes beneath 85%, he will switch his strategy to quick kill, and if his blood level goes below 70%, he will surrender instead. Berta has 16 hours to confirm her own strategy, otherwise it will resort to the default strategy, which is either what she set up manually in the past, or a global default. Before Berta logs in, Cecil notices that Berta is under attack and initiates attack on Andy. Because Andy was already engaged in combat, he can only change his strategy until Berta's defense is resolved, in other words, it doesn't start a new 16 hour counter. Then if David decides to help Andy before Berta has logged in, the timer continues being tied to Berta's reaction because she was the original target. When Berta logs in, she will see that she is being targeted by both Andy and David, while Cecil is defending her. She can now set her strategy and resolve the combat immediately, or log out and wait until the timer runs out. Andy might find the combined forces of Cecil and Berta too risky to fight, so he can set his strategy to surrender instead, but the timer will continue to be bound to Berta until the end.

    Default strategy: in general, people can select if someone hits me with strategy A, fight back with strategy X, except if the person is on this list, then do Y. This can for example be used to auto surrender to friends and family members. If someone has been fighting me, then attempts to run away, will I let them go or continue hitting them? Also people can choose to always resolve immediately instead of using the timer, if they feel safe in that their strategy covers every alternative. This will speed up the game. If a person has surrendered, the winner can't kill them until the player of the surrendered character has logged in again to acknowledge or 16 hours has passed. The winner can do other things in the meanwhile. A surrendered character can't escape even if they're online unless the winner leaves the location or gets killed/incapacitated. Someone can't see on top if someone has the timer turned off, so every time you attack someone, you take the risk of dying in one click if you don't have a surrender exception in your settings. Even surrender doesn't always prevent instakill if someone accidentally hits a major artery or heart. If someone dies and they have unfinished scenes, they will be allowed to finish them, but they're not allowed to refer to the impending death because when the scenes take place, they are unaware of the future.
     
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    ogreman

    ogreman Ogre In Charge Staff Member GameOgre Admin

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    I want to get much more into developing and I think a project would be the best way to do it for me (because I generally learn by doing) rather than a book or an online course. Thought about a text fighting game because I have always been a fan of boxing, ma, mma, and even wrestling:). Not to mention the fact that combat is one of my favorite areas of games. I think I could do something in that realm if I can just get started:). That said, any suggestions on what to get started with that? Plus, I could you help you once I get familiar with it.

    Glad to hear about the additional testers. I will be testing as well in the next few days:).

    The status of the first version has now been delayed because the system needs more work right?

    Hmmm, is there a way to have a fight between humans and then make like a cool-off period before they can fight again? Although not realistic, it could solve a few problems where players try to exploit the system to kill others easily.
     

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