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PvP vs. PvE Debate

Discussion in 'MMO Debates' started by ogreman, Nov 2, 2011.

In your opinion, who should win this debate?

  1. Quinn

    5 vote(s)
    25.0%
  2. Funny Gamer

    16 vote(s)
    80.0%
  1. Admin Post
    ogreman

    ogreman Ogre In Charge Staff Member GameOgre Admin

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    This is the current official debate:). Quinn is defending his championship. The topic is to determine which do you think is more valuable to a game, PvP or PvE. Once an opponent accepts the challenge, there will be opening arguments followed by a poll.
     
  2. Webber

    Webber Well-Known Member Ogre Veteran

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    Wasn't funnygamer and quinn going to have a rematch?
     
  3. Admin Post
    ogreman

    ogreman Ogre In Charge Staff Member GameOgre Admin

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    Yes, we have been waiting on that. However, jut starting a new debate would be good enough at this point.
     
  4. funnygamer

    funnygamer Clubbed

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    Ok I'm fine with a rematch. You can choose your side Quinn.
     
  5. quinn

    quinn Starcatcher Ogre Veteran

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    I shall take Player v. Player.
    Allow the writing of the opening arguments to begin :)
     
  6. funnygamer

    funnygamer Clubbed

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    So mine is PVE, then. I'll start with my opening arguments.

    First of all, I would like to state that PVE is a lot more important than PVP. The main reason is that the the MMORPG genre, is built in a PVE context, and PVP is just an additional feature. I say that it is built in a PVE context because RPGs, have always been fighting against computer AI. It is almost always a single player game that lets you fight mobs, not players. As such, turning this genre into an MMO, it only follows that the main concept will still require players to fight AI mobs, and not players. The PVP aspect is just added, because of the added "MMO" clause.

    Secondly, a lot more players prefer PVE than PVP. This is not only true in GameOgre, based on a poll made in another section, but this is also true for the general gaming population. In the games that I am playing, it is not difficult to find players who just play the PVE part and not the PVP aspect at all. I believe that this stems from the fact that a good chunk of players are RPG players who are used to the RPG mechanics of controlling a character, having a story, having a level system, etc. and not necessarily fighting other players. It is not surprising, therefore, that there are more MMORPGs that are focused on PVE with a PVP aspect, rather than focusing on PVP with a PVE aspect.

    Lastly, I honestly believe that the MMORPG genre was created to do PVE. There are other genres that are more fit for PVP like shooters and fighting games. However, the main cake for MMORPG is PVE and PVP is just the icing.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 10, 2011
  7. Joker

    Joker Well-Known Member Ogre Veteran

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    How long does each debater have to respond?
     
  8. Admin Post
    ogreman

    ogreman Ogre In Charge Staff Member GameOgre Admin

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    Hmmm, not sure. Probably a few days with nothing over a week.
     
  9. quinn

    quinn Starcatcher Ogre Veteran

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    I could've sworn I put that I'd have it written by this weekend in there.
    _____________________________

    MMORPGs are multiplayer games. Humans are competitive by nature. It only makes sense for games to focus more on the impact of PvP than fighting bytes thrown at the players. Beating other players is a great deal more satisfactory as well, as you know you've beaten a real person, not just some supercomputer giving more health points to enemies to make them harder to beat. From the beginning MUDs there has been PvP in games, because that's what players want when they are using the internet: to compete. And what better way to compete than by shooting fireballs at your best friends face?

    Many games currently have mostly PvE, but there are plenty of PvP focused games...after all, it's much easier to make a PvE game that is fun for everyone, as you don't have to worry about all the classes being in perfect balance. PvP games require that each class be near exactly the same in power, as it's much more noticeable then when fighting things that don't talk back. Don't need your players complaining about unbalanced gameplay? Just make a PvE game!

    There are games that are entirely PvP, and are pretty successful. Splashfighters, for example, has it's own game forum section on GameOgre.com. There's no reason why a game requires PvE to be successful.
     
  10. funnygamer

    funnygamer Clubbed

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    While it is true that it gives more satisfaction beating another player rather than an AI, we still can't deny the fact that PVE is more popular. In an MMORPG, almost everyone plays the PVE aspect of the game. However, not everyone plays the PVP aspect. This just goes to show that there are still a good chunk of people who play MMORPGs to level up, beat monsters, etc. as they do in console RPGs. Not everyone is longing to fight other people.

    Furthermore, there are major drawbacks when it comes to PVP. The first one is human misbehavior. Good PVP systems are ruined by a lot of human misbehavior. Examples of which are ganking, flaming, trash talking, and a lot more. A lot of people are like you said, competitive. And sometimes, this competitiveness brings out behaviors that are not desirable. In addition, with the anonymity that the virtual world gives, it makes people a lot easier to succumb to these behaviors. These bad behaviors, are in no way exhibited by AI.

    Another drawback stems from what you mentioned: class balance. In a PVP game, players want their classes to be balanced. Nobody wants to have an unfair advantage just because I chose a specific class. And this balance somehow limits the potential of what a class should be able to do. In a PVE MMORPG, we are not limited so much by balance. Dragon Nest, has several balance issues in PVP, but in PVE, they are very specialized. Most of the classes are almost equally preferable when doing dungeons since the classes have their own specialties.

    (Although hopefully this will not turn into a class specialization vs class balance. Haha. I just mentioned it since it is indeed a drawback of PVP MMORPGs)
     
  11. Admin Post
    ogreman

    ogreman Ogre In Charge Staff Member GameOgre Admin

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    Ok, the poll has started:).
     
  12. Admin Post
    ogreman

    ogreman Ogre In Charge Staff Member GameOgre Admin

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    It's Quinn's turn in this debate.
     
  13. Admin Post
    ogreman

    ogreman Ogre In Charge Staff Member GameOgre Admin

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    If there is no response soon, the poll will determine the winner.
     
  14. funnygamer

    funnygamer Clubbed

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    Awww... that's sad. Quinn where are you? :(
     
  15. Admin Post
    ogreman

    ogreman Ogre In Charge Staff Member GameOgre Admin

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    Nothing sad about it. We just need a time limit to keep these debates moving:).
     
  16. Admin Post
    ogreman

    ogreman Ogre In Charge Staff Member GameOgre Admin

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    Ok, Funny Gamer has won this debate and is the new champion:).
     
  17. Supernatural

    Supernatural LiveStreamer Ogre Veteran

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  18. quinn

    quinn Starcatcher Ogre Veteran

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    It's important in both games, PvE and PvP, to have balance. Balance is a central part of gameplay, whether between the environment or the players.

    While it is true that players can be jerks, people are jerks in the real world, too. Many games have pretty decent security, ignoring, and blocking systems in place...and really, the competitive nature of the gameplay is what makes it fun to many users. After all, you can't really get in a heated match with an emotionless robot!
     
  19. Admin Post
    ogreman

    ogreman Ogre In Charge Staff Member GameOgre Admin

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    Ok, the debate continues since Quinn is back:).
     
  20. Admin Post
    ogreman

    ogreman Ogre In Charge Staff Member GameOgre Admin

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    Your turn now, FunnyGamer:).
     

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