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T-54 Model 1945 versus Type 59

Discussion in 'World of Tanks' started by ufbre, Jul 14, 2014.

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  1. ufbre

    ufbre World of Tanks Fan Ogre Veteran

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    T-54 Model 1945 versus Type 59

    from FTR

    Hello everyone,

    today, we are going to have a look at the characteristics of the T-54 Model 1945 (as based on the book that Wargaming uses for reference). Should be an interesting comparison.
    [​IMG]
    Now, what do we know about this upcoming premium tank from Wargaming itself:

    - it will be slow, but heavily armored
    - it will resemble Super Pershing in the gameplay more than Type 59
    - developers stated they do not want another Type 59

    Now, the book I am referring to is “Отечественные бронированные машины, том 2 1941-1945″ (Domestic armored vehicles, part 2 1941-1945) by A.G.Solyankin. Let’s have a look at it and compare it to the famous Type 59. Looking at the comparison table in the book, it’s possible to notice that this vehicle is somewhat different from all the other T-54 versions and clones (usually not in a good way, the prototype still had some pretty serious issues, that got reworked only in later versions). It’s not that heavy (35,5 tons, compared to the ingame weight of the elite T-54 (34,68 tons) or Type 59 (35,72 tons)). The general dimensions of the vehicle are roughly the same as well – it’s however worth noting that this tank is lowerest than other T-54 versions (2275mm, compared to 2400mm of later versions), it however also has lower clearance (400mm, compared to later 425-450mm), hinting at poorer terrain passability (we’ll get to that later). It’s a bit shorter and bit narrower than the later versions as well. This does not influence the gameplay directly, but for example the height of the turret has some nasty side-effects, as we’ll see later.


    Armor

    Now, from the previous Wargaming statements, we know that the armor will be this vehicle’s strong suit. Or… will it? For starters, let’s have a look at Type 59 first, so we have something to compare it with.

    UFP: 100mm (60 degrees) – 200mm EFF
    LFP: 100mm (55 degrees) – 175mm EFF
    Sides: 80mm
    Turret front: 200mm
    Turret sides: 130mm (above, 194mm EFF), 168mm lower part

    Those are the important numbers, the frontal sector after all is the strongpoint of the T-54 clones. And now, let’s have a look at the T-54 Model 1945 (the schematic is not a part of the book as far as we know).
    [​IMG]
    The book mentioned above notes the following numbers

    UFP: 120mm (60 degrees) – 240mm EFF
    LFP: 120mm (45 degrees) – 170mm EFF

    Notice that the upper frontal plate of the vehicle will be practically impenetrable, but the lower frontal plate, despite its thickness of 120mm actually is not THAT tough – the reason for that is that unlike later T-54 models, where the LFP angle was 55 degrees, it is only 45 degrees here. Thus, the LFP can be considered a “weakpoint†(if something like that can be said over a 170mm thick part of armor)

    Sides: 90mm (here, those 90 extra milimeters might actually help). The turret is a more problematic, because the armor schematic above does NOT correspond to the data in the table from the book I am using (and Wargaming uses). I will thus be using the numbers from the book and not from the schematic.

    Turret front: 180mm
    Turret sides: 90-150mm (at 20 degrees – 96 to 160mm)

    As you can see, the turret is actually not as heavily armored as the one of Type 59 (and also has worse angles), but from the front, it will still likely be quite hard to penetrate (note the large mantlet). What might be a problem is the commander’s cupola, that is 90mm thick (compared to Type 59′s 130mm), so that’s going to be nasty, but for an average player, who shoots the vehicle in the hull, this will probably hardly matter (after all, Super Pershing’s copula is even thinner). Compared to the Super Pershing armor, the T-54 Model 1945 seems inferior, especially due to the massive spaced armor plates, that do all kinds of nasty stuff to shells in the game. In total, the armor (due to the LFP weakspots and the turret) seems inferior to both the Super Pershing and the Type 59, but we’ll have to wait and see, how an average player will deal with this tank. Certainly it will not be the easiest to destroy.

    Gun

    Here, it’s simple. The vehicle is practically certain to recieve a non-stabilized version of the D-10T gun – a modified model, called the D-10T-K, which however has identical characteristics to the classic D-10T (model 1945). How that looks we can see in the T-54′s stock gun: 175/235 PEN, 250 DAM, 0.39 ACC, 0.29 AIM. Now, keep in mind that the AIM, ACC and to some extent even PEN parameters are actually balance parameters (in real life, D-10T had better penetration than it has in the game), so in the end, these parameters can (and probably will) be modified somehow (and I am not even talking about the DPM), but one thing is clear – do not expect this tank to be a sniper. The gun however has one very nasty surprise – it’s historical gun depression was -3/+17. Yep, -3, sounds fun, doesn’t it? Considering that this would be practically unplayable (especially for a medium), it’s likely this parameter will be buffed to -5 or so, but do not expect to be using hills to peek-a-boom (in fact, given the pronounced LFP weakspot, doing that would be a very bad idea overall). The historical rate of fire was also lower than that of the later versions (5-6 RPM, later 7-8 RPM), but the DPM is a balance parameter. Overall, the firepower of this vehicle (given the poor depression compared to the Super Pershing and Type 59′s superior penetration) has the potential to be the worst of the three, but we’ll see how Wargaming deals with that.

    Mobility

    Here, comparing anything is pure speculation, but it’s safe to say that the mobility of this vehicle will be inferior to the Type 59. Both vehicles are roughly of the same weight, both are powered by a 520hp engine (in T-54 1945 case, it’s V-2-44 diesel), but the historical maximum speed of the T-54 Model 1945 was only 43,5 km/h (Type 59: 56 km/h, Super Pershing: 40,2 km/h) and it used the inferior old type transmission (planetary model came later), similiar to the T-44, so I think we can all see where this is going.

    Conclusion

    Personally, I think this tank will end up being something between Type 59 and Super Pershing. The armor will be nasty (average pubbie/tomato player will fire at upper frontal plate and will start raging when it bounces), but skilled players will not have too many issues dealin with it using weakspots (just like they do with Super Pershing). Mobility-wise, the tank will likely end up being faster than Super Pershing, but a LOT slower than Type 59 and it might end up being a nice compromise between the two (there is no doubt the vehicle will be inferior in practically every aspect to the Type 59 however). I am actually glad they chose this model, because copared to the other “T-54 clonesâ€, it is clear it offers some distinctive (slower) gameplay, not typical for the Soviet medium tanks.
     
  2. El Monstro De Galleta

    El Monstro De Galleta Ogre Legend Ogre Veteran

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    Well, hopefully they buff the T-54 Premium. Otherwise, no one will buy it.
     
  3. Hawx1990SRBIJA

    Hawx1990SRBIJA Iron Ogre Ogre Veteran

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    If it get 3 degrees of gun depression... well let's say that churchill with 4 degrees made me very annoyed in practically every battle. And he is heavy tank with gun that can penetrate almost everything that can face without aiming for weak spots.
     
  4. ivekvv256

    ivekvv256 Ogre Legend The Pit

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    Churchill never seemed to be my problem, he is one of the easiest tanks I faced against... :p
     
  5. Hawx1990SRBIJA

    Hawx1990SRBIJA Iron Ogre Ogre Veteran

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    Of all tier 5 heavys churchill is probably second worst, after VK 3001H. Although VK can hull down, has gun depresion and better gun. But still i think churchill 1 is a bit better.
     
  6. Wink

    Wink Big Brute New Ogre

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    he is one of the easiest tanks I faced against
     
  7. El Monstro De Galleta

    El Monstro De Galleta Ogre Legend Ogre Veteran

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    Churchill can be tough to face it you stand and trade shots with him
     
  8. Hawx1990SRBIJA

    Hawx1990SRBIJA Iron Ogre Ogre Veteran

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    It depends, T-34 can trade shoots if it has Zis 4 gun.
     
  9. ivekvv256

    ivekvv256 Ogre Legend The Pit

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    I seriusly can't remmember when was he hard to trade shots with... o_O We probably didn't play the same tanks vs him. ^^
     
  10. El Monstro De Galleta

    El Monstro De Galleta Ogre Legend Ogre Veteran

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    Very easy to do circle of death to
     
  11. Hawx1990SRBIJA

    Hawx1990SRBIJA Iron Ogre Ogre Veteran

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    Yeah because of none whatsoever gun depression. E25 just get in the clinch with me and i couldnt hit him.
     
  12. El Monstro De Galleta

    El Monstro De Galleta Ogre Legend Ogre Veteran

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  13. Hawx1990SRBIJA

    Hawx1990SRBIJA Iron Ogre Ogre Veteran

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    Yeah but not that low that any other tank couldnt hit it. XD
     
  14. El Monstro De Galleta

    El Monstro De Galleta Ogre Legend Ogre Veteran

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