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I have been reading a lot about MMO Nickel and Diming

Discussion in 'MMORPG' started by slessman, Feb 7, 2010.

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  1. slessman

    slessman Big Brute

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    I think it is pretty infuriating that MMO companies are considering forcing players to pay for access to different zones. I think it is also pretty ridiculous that certain pay to play games (if not all of them) are expecting players to pay real money for virtual items in order for them to progress in the game. I think that the point of gaming is to have fun. What are your thoughts about this sort of thing?

    Let me add that I have yet to really experience this nickel and diming (neither on WOW or Ryzom), but should MMO players be concerned about the future of their games and their wallets?
     
    slessman, Feb 7, 2010
    slessman, Feb 7, 2010
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  2. Vikeadyn

    Vikeadyn Spiked Club The Pit

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    I say yes, MMO players should be concerned. Now adays everybody is more money hungry then they ever where. What I dislike is even these so called "free" MMO's you need to pay a little bit of real money just to get the full benefit of the game..

    Even though I still love these MMO's it is still unfair to those players that just want to enjoy a game, and have to be "Forced" into useing real money. for any game goodies. In other words those who pay have a way better advantage in game then those who do not.
     
    Vikeadyn, Feb 7, 2010
    Vikeadyn, Feb 7, 2010
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  3. slessman

    slessman Big Brute

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    Completely unfair! I have seen so many threads on other websites where people are concerned about this situation and I thought I would bring it to Game Ogre's attention. We MMO players have a right to know; and then to justly complain.
     
    slessman, Feb 8, 2010
    slessman, Feb 8, 2010
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  4. JaredOzzy

    JaredOzzy The Legendary Ogre Veteran

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    dude if you made an mmo wich does cost money to make you would want to make a profit wouldnt you? and dont say you wouldnt and if u pay for the thing then its ur choice if u really like it then do it dont complain about it just move to a diffrent game!
     
    JaredOzzy, Feb 8, 2010
    JaredOzzy, Feb 8, 2010
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  5. Aaddron

    Aaddron Moderator Staff Member GameOgre Moderator

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    Well it does cost money to run an MMO, while yes some go a little overboard it really takes that much money to keep an MMO a float. It's not like a normal game where most the money goes to making it then after the game is made ride the profit with little expenses. They have to pour a ton into making it then after it's made they have to get servers and continue to pay for the servers for the life of the game. There are tons of other fees too.

    If running an MMO was cheap the prices wouldn't be so bad.
     
    Aaddron, Feb 8, 2010
    Aaddron, Feb 8, 2010
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  6. quinn

    quinn Starcatcher Ogre Veteran

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    MMOs Servers (or any servers in general) cost a TON of money to run.
    Here is hosting cost for just a large clan to run a FPS server:

    I estimate this is good for about, 30-40 players.
    Multiply it by a million, and you have some big game game servers.
     
    quinn, Feb 8, 2010
    quinn, Feb 8, 2010
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  7. awesomedrako

    awesomedrako Clubbed

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    A game developer has to make money off their game, both to earn a living and to pay for the costs of developing said game. For an MMO, costs are even higher since not only do you have to pay for a development team, but you also have huge servers to run that will costs heaps of money. That's why WoW needs so much money, because the development team for it is huge, and millions of players play it, all requesting a server to connect to. It's also why even free games like Perfect World have cash shops in them, because they need money to run as well. In fact, I don't know how PWE is sustaining Perfect World, SO MANY PEOPLE are playing it, but a cash shop and advertising seems to be all they need!
     
    awesomedrako, Feb 8, 2010
    awesomedrako, Feb 8, 2010
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  8. slessman

    slessman Big Brute

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    I understand that MMO developers needed to make money. That is not the issue at hand. I just happen to be of the understanding that if one is playing a free to play game then it should be free. If the game is pay to play then the additional zones and expansion packs should be factored into the monthly subscription as opposed to paying extra for it. I think that is where the bigger MMOs have it wrong. I was not about to pay for the WOW expansion packs out there. Why do that if you are already paying 15 dollars for the game? Pay to play should not mean pay for the right to buy more stuff so that you can grind in exclusive zones. There is a certain degree of fairness that we as players should demand. I have not experienced nickel and diming myself, as I have mentioned in my first post, but I do understand when business practices are starting to lose a little bit of their ethical backing. Though Ryzom has yet to nickel and dime me, it makes me wonder whether MMOs in general are all a scheme to peddle services. Who knows, maybe some gold farming services that are allegedly illegal for players to use, are ultimately run by the same corporations. An advanced knowledge of the game would be needed to acrue that much money. Some involvement can be expected.
     
    slessman, Feb 8, 2010
    slessman, Feb 8, 2010
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  9. Aaddron

    Aaddron Moderator Staff Member GameOgre Moderator

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    Well the bigger MMO's release expansion packs to renew interest in the game to keep paying there massive server cost and they charge for the expansion pack because it cost time and money to make it. Yes some are ripping people off... $50 for 20 quest... couple extra levels etc... but some require that kind of cost, WoTLK was a pretty big expansion same with the Burning Crusade before it.

    Think of it this way, you sell apple pie, it's a big hit but after a year or two people start to get bored of that pie so you add ice cream to the deal to get interest in the pie back up. If you add the ice cream for free then the ice cream is a pit and even if your pie sales pick up it's possible it wont cover the ice cream, say you pay for the ice cream monthly. So now you start each month in a hole paying for the ice cream(host expansion for free etc...), the increased revenue generated by the ice cream(increased interest due to new content) is used to get out of the hole... if the hole is bigger than the increase in revenue then it cuts into your pie revenue(normal earnings) and it's possible you'll end up making less than if you just stuck with the declining interest. Where as if you charge for the ice cream it will pay for the hole(development, hosting, putting it in stores etc...) and you get to keep any increased revenue in the pie.

    You know what I'm tired xD and none of the stuff above probably makes sense but I already typed it up. Tired and bored don't mix...
     
    Aaddron, Feb 8, 2010
    Aaddron, Feb 8, 2010
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  10. quinn

    quinn Starcatcher Ogre Veteran

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    In most free games, you aren't required to get the expansions.

    Why do you even need that $50 expansion? If you like the game already, than keep what you've got.
     
    quinn, Feb 8, 2010
    quinn, Feb 8, 2010
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  11. Aaddron

    Aaddron Moderator Staff Member GameOgre Moderator

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    Yeah Perfect World is a perfect example of that... they have released 2 big expansion packs and both where 100% free.
     
    Aaddron, Feb 9, 2010
    Aaddron, Feb 9, 2010
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  12. awesomedrako

    awesomedrako Clubbed

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    Expansion packs cost money for a simple reason, like Aaddron said, because they cost money to develop as well. They normally add a very large amount of content into the game in one go, which needs to be developed, and that would cost more money than the regular patches of the MMO which add, bit by bit, that can be paid off with the monthly fees. That's why expansion packs cost money, because there's a large amount of content being developed in a small amount of time.
     
    awesomedrako, Feb 9, 2010
    awesomedrako, Feb 9, 2010
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  13. quinn

    quinn Starcatcher Ogre Veteran

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    I meant that you don't have to buy the expansions that cost money.
     
    quinn, Feb 9, 2010
    quinn, Feb 9, 2010
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  14. shugo

    shugo Elite Ogre Ogre Veteran

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    I agree with the fact that people don't like pay-for-play, but these companies have got to make money somehow and the advertisements market isn't very good as of lately. Kinda makes you wonder how much money ogreman is making out of this forum, probably very little.

    If these companies don't make money, they'll go bankrupt and then the games go bye bye along with the companies that make them... so that's no good...

    I mean there'll be amateurs like me and my site shugo.nl, but my costs are incredibly low (about 25 euro for a full year of hosting)... not so when you have a dedicated server, because those things don't come cheap...

    development takes time and well these developers gotta live off something, so they can eat and pay their rent

    ...but there's other ways i suppose that work better for both sides
     
    shugo, Feb 10, 2010
    shugo, Feb 10, 2010
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  15. quinn

    quinn Starcatcher Ogre Veteran

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    Click some ads every once and a while :D

    I disable my ad blocker on sites I like, so I can click them to generate revenue :)



    What's really neat is the game Dwarf Fortress, the owner Toady One earns all the money for it from donations. He gets about 2000-5000 dollars a month from donations, and the game is still in beta testing.
     
    quinn, Feb 10, 2010
    quinn, Feb 10, 2010
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  16. shugo

    shugo Elite Ogre Ogre Veteran

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    yes donations is a way to make enough money... but unfortunately it doesn't always work
     
    shugo, Feb 11, 2010
    shugo, Feb 11, 2010
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  17. JaredOzzy

    JaredOzzy The Legendary Ogre Veteran

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    it depends if the game is good or not..
     
    JaredOzzy, Feb 11, 2010
    JaredOzzy, Feb 11, 2010
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  18. quinn

    quinn Starcatcher Ogre Veteran

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    Or if a game is largely commercialized.
     
    quinn, Feb 11, 2010
    quinn, Feb 11, 2010
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